Art World, Roxane Gay Is Ready to Discuss Your Grade

With the exhibition How to Be a Guerrilla Girl in full swing at the Getty Center, a January 17 talk at the museum will bring Roxane Gay into conversation with the iconic feminists being feted through the show.

The event is sold out but will be recorded and made available on YouTube.

Ahead of the talk, Gay spoke about the group’s impact, what their work has meant to her, and the evolution of feminism.

When did you first learn about the Guerrilla Girls, and what was your impression of their work?

Roxane Gay: I’m an art collector, so my first exposure to them was seeing and appreciating some of their art and posters, which have a distinct, bold visual style. But what’s more important is the message they communicate, which has unfortunately remained fairly consistent over the years. While we’ve certainly seen progress in how women are treated in the arts, there’s still a lot of work yet to be done. Many of their same fights from 40 years ago still exist today.

How do you regard the Guerrilla Girls’ role in the canon of influential feminist thinkers?

RG: They brought attention to many things. Certainly, feminists had been agitating for women artists to be treated more equitably before the Guerrilla Girls, but it’s remarkable to recognize how long they have sustained their campaign and how consistently they show up. Their work is always thoughtful, and they bring an intersectional ethos while doing it with style. They are artists, not just activists, and even if they were only activists, that would be enough. But combining the two roles? They do it so very well.

They’ve also prioritized the message over the messenger. Because they’re anonymous, instead what matters is what they’re saying and how they’re saying it. We’re not focused on their identities, politics, et cetera. Those things matter, but they don’t allow any individual to supersede the message, which is admirable.

And their street-level work is incredibly important. They’re not just talking to people in museums or on boards; they’re trying to reach everyday people who consume or appreciate art but may not think about some of the challenges artists face.

As for their humor, it’s definitely a “spoonful of sugar” kind of idea. You have to laugh sometimes, because these injustices are so infuriating, frustrating, and preventable. And yet here we are having these ridiculous conversations about the fact that women are people. Women deserve respect. Women are brilliant artists and thinkers.

How do you see your own strategies aligning with or diverging from theirs?

RG: The one thing that matters to me most is consistency and trying to always be rigorous, thoughtful, and myself. These priorities align with their project. And while I’m a writer and not anonymous or working in a group, I appreciate the importance of aesthetics and consistency in my own work. And humor. You have to use humor in these situations, or you will kind of go crazy.

The Guerrilla Girls have said it’s surprising what comes out of their mouths when wearing gorilla masks—that anonymity lets them take bigger risks and speak more bluntly. How do you navigate visibility and self-exposure in your own work?

RG: For most writers, visibility isn’t much of an issue. Most people don’t know what many famous writers look like, and I love that. It’s a strange side effect of my career that I am often publicly visible because of my work.

In my last piece, for the New York Times, I answered a curated selection of questions, which was great because I got to engage with readers but didn’t have to expose myself to unnecessary negativity, which is not the same as criticism. Criticism is fine, criticism is fair game, but unfortunately, when you’re a woman, when you’re a Black woman, when you’re fat, people tend to focus more on who you are instead of what you have to say. And the first insult people generally lodge is, like, “you’re ugly, or you’re fat.” And I’m like, “what’s your point?”

I suspect one of the many reasons the Guerrilla Girls chose anonymity is so that we wouldn’t be talking about their appearances. We would be talking about the very real problems that people are dealing with in the art world. Also, I think the gorilla masks are hilarious.

You have been a feminist since you were a child. How would you say feminism has evolved in society since then, and how has your own feminism evolved?

RG: Hopefully, my own feminism gets stronger and wiser as I get older. My book Bad Feminist was published 11 years ago, and I stand by everything in it. But in the ensuing years, I’ve started to think a lot more about accountability. Be human—you’re allowed to make whatever choices you want to make, but those choices have consequences. And it’s important to consider those consequences because they do have effects, and, sometimes, effects can be far-reaching.

How can we all become better feminists? And in that vein, is anyone doing particularly wonderful work right now that you want to call out?

RG: We can become better feminists by living our lives in the most feminist ways possible. Depending on where you are and what your life priorities are, you can make better decisions, ones that help support marginalized people. Or you can care about and invest in the world around you. Our communities are our richest resources, and the more we pour in, the more they will pour back into us. There are many amazing feminist scholars working right now, like Brittney Cooper, who wrote Eloquent Rage; sociologist Tressie McMillan Cottom, who is a really interesting scholar whose feminism is embedded in her work; and Sara Ahmed, a British writer, thinker, and feminist. There’s a great feminist magazine called LIBER. It’s also important for people to stay abreast of everything that’s happening politically, because it does matter.

Do you think of these values as you collect art, as in the people and stories that you’re investing in?

RG: It depends. In general, I buy art because I love it and want to look at it. I tend to prioritize artists from women, Black artists, queer artists. But if I look at something and I love it and it’s within my budget—unfortunately, a lot of art isn’t—then I will definitely try and acquire it. I think mission-driven collecting is the way for many people. And in many ways I’m mission driven, but I’m also just driven by art that excites me, makes me think, and makes me feel awe. We also have to make sure artists are being paid for their beautiful labor. Those are my guiding principles.

The Guerrilla Girls famously evaluated art galleries and museums on their representation of females and people of color. How would you grade some of the art institutions today?

RG: The Studio Museum in Harlem would get an A plus plus. Director and Chief Curator Thelma Golden is doing thoughtful work there. Nothing is perfect, but I love her sensibility, taste, the way she has shepherded the museum, and the shows that she puts on. It’s wonderful to know that it’s possible to have a museum that focuses on African American art and Black art. As for every other museum—it depends. Take the Frick. Most of their collection is from before 1900, so there’s plenty to critique there. But it was based on the [Henry Clay] Frick collection from when he was alive, his collecting interests, and who was making art at the time.

That said, the Frick is really interesting. They also do thoughtful exhibitions that bring in contemporary artists. They have really great programmatic ideas. So you would think they wouldn’t get a good grade, but I would give them an A as well because they really do contextualize their collection and make space for interesting programming.

At other big museums like MoMA, the Whitney, the Guggenheim, and Getty, we see people trying very hard to modernize and diversify collections. And we also see quite a lot of resistance from the museums’ boards. Until you address the board problem and the wealthy patron problem, you’re not going to be able to do much. So I think that there’s plenty to critique, but it’s an industry-wide problem. Honestly, I think we have to give the industry as a whole a C for that aspect. But I have yet to go to a museum or work with a museum that did not have curators who were trying really hard to create change and were working against almost immovable forces. So while we can give all the grades we want, I do think it’s important to acknowledge what the curators are up against.

What do you hope attendees will take away from the January 17 talk?

RG: That activism is alive and well. That change happens, but change is still needed. And that smart, witty, interesting people are oftentimes the ones who are driving these movements, and that matters. Also, I hope that people recognize the breadth of the work the Guerrilla Girls have done and give them their flowers.