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[teacherartexchange] Need tips on how to gain 4th grade interest in art

---------

From: JacobusseJulie (JacobusseJulie_at_TeacherArtExchange)
Date: Sun Sep 25 2005 - 05:46:07 PDT


I just moved from Michigan to Georgia to begin my first year teaching art
K-5. The town is a small community south of Atlanta with deep southern
values and religious beliefs. I am building relationships and establishing
an art program for the K-3 students and the 5th graders have come around
recently-they are in my hall by my classroom. However the 4th grade
classes-there are 3 of them-they seem to have no desire or interest in art.
They are loud, disrespectful and have not been able to complete the first
couple of projects I have given them to the best of their abilities. There
are about 27-29 students in each class with about 50% African American and
50% white. I want to gain their interest in art and to build a strong
program for them. I have been looking for books to help me understand the
southern culture-many African American students do not look at me when I
talk to them. Some students both white and African American talk like they
have a sock in their mouth making it hard for me to understand them. Are
there any lessons or tips that would help me with them? I personally think
the classes are too big. I have talked to their classroom teachers, the
principal, and many others and their solutions have not seemed to help and
only helped the classes behave short term-for one class period. Also, this
school system has been though many art teachers. The one before me was
there for a year and took a job at her church, the one before that 3 years
but I was told she was mean to the students, from what I have heard they
have had other art teachers but none for very long.

Thanks for any helpful input,
Yours in Georgia-Julie Jacobusse

-----Original Message-----
From: TeacherArtExchange Discussion Group digest
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Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2005 3:00 AM
To: teacherartexchange digest recipients
Subject: teacherartexchange digest: September 24, 2005

TEACHERARTEXCHANGE Digest for Saturday, September 24, 2005.

1. I need an art project based on Leonardo Da Vinci
2. Re: sjs website and my week with Katrina and other issues
3. Mike Sacco's visual journals
4. Re: Mike Sacco's visual journals
5. Re: The Tracer
6. Re: Mike Sacco's visual journals
7. Re: Mike Sacco's visual journals
8. Long email with tons of questions
9. Re: Mike Sacco's visual journals
10. Re: The Tracer
11. Re: Long email with tons of questions
12. Re: Long email with tons of questions
13. RE: I need an art project based on Leonardo Da Vinci
14. Re: freedom of expression
15. Re: Some sort of new work
16. Re: Long email with tons of questions
17. Re: [teacherartexchange tons of questions
18. Re: I need an art project based on Leonardo Da Vinci
19. Re: Stacie: visual journals
20. RE: I need an art project based on Leonardo Da Vinci
21. Re: I need an art project based on Leonardo Da Vinci
22. Re: [teacherartexchange tons of questions
23. Too Strange a Picture
24. Wonderfully Illustrated Children's Book
25. Re: [teacherartexchange tons of questions
26. Re: Stacie: visual journals
27. Re: Stacie: visual journals
28. Re: Stacie: visual journals
29. Re: Stacie hang in there

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: I need an art project based on Leonardo Da Vinci
From: Sharon Blackwood <ziadawn@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 01:35:44 -0600
X-Message-Number: 1

I teach K-5 art at 2 elemenart schools. I am in each of their
classrooms for about 45 minutes every two weeks. For the next two
weeks I will be covering Leonardo Da Vince. I will show a power point
presentation about him for the first 10 minutes, then I will have
about 30 minutes left for an art project. Any ideas? Thanks

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: sjs website and my week with Katrina and other issues
From: lindwood@webtv.net
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 07:28:05 -0500
X-Message-Number: 2

Hi all,
   I lost my mom in hospice this past Tuesday. We barely got her into
the ground before they shut down the cemetery for the storm. I feel so
great that she is in the ground with my dad and not in a morgue
somewhere. We'll have a memorial service soon. We were going to leave
and go to Kerrville, but it was simply not meant to be. We were much too
fried to get out of here, couldn't think well enough to get organized,
and were sleep deprived and too stressed out to function well, so we
stayed. Boy am I glad we did now, though I totally support and am
thrilled that the evacuation worked as well as it did. There is simply
no way that it could have been perfect with our population. Each time
we do these things now, we will learn something else about how to handle
it better next time. I can only imagine the stress the evacuees felt
sitting in gridlock with gas running out. While Houston's dodging the
bullet is someone else's panic attack, I have to say that one thing I am
most greatful for, as you must be is that the refineries here appear to
be fine.
At least, that is my impression.

It's been quite a week. My mom died very peacefully with all of us
there. The last six weeks of her life in hospice are some of the
dearest and sweetest memories I have of her. Strange.

Please don't feel that you all need to reply to this. I just wanted to
let you all know what was going on here. I live 5 miles from downtown
Houston. As I look out at daybreak, I see no trees down, no water
standing anywhere, just a rainy morning.
Hallelujah!!! I'm going to bed!

Linda
 
Visit our Lower and Middle School Art Gallery Sites:
www.sjs.org
Click on Arts, Lower School or Middle School, Gallery

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Mike Sacco's visual journals
From: J Well <scherenschnitte442000@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 06:28:51 -0700 (PDT)
X-Message-Number: 3

Thanks so much for the link; they're terrific. Tell
me, please, are the books spiral notebooks with blank
pages? or regular lined notebooks with plain paper
pasted in? or art sketchbooks? Did you purchase them
in bulk? Also, have you previously shared your list
of journal assignments? Compliments to you and those
9th graders. J.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Mike Sacco's visual journals
From: "Diane C. Gregory" <dianegregory@grandecom.net>
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 07:49:45 -0600
X-Message-Number: 4

Yes Congratulations to Mike Sacco! They are terrific. I went to the web
site
yesterday and I was amazed at the visual journals. I also was truly
inspired
by other art work up there, including the shells, abstract art projects,
etc.
Truly inspirational work. I bookmarked the site so that I could share the
project ideas and examples of finished work with my art education majors.
There
are also examples from other art teachers at this school.

I am sure they will be inspired as I was! Thanks for sharing

--
Dr. Diane C. Gregory
Director, Undergraduate & Graduate
Studies in Art Education
Texas Woman's University
Denton, TX  76204
dgregory@mail.twu.edu
940-898-2540
Quoting J Well <scherenschnitte442000@yahoo.com>:
>
>
> Thanks so much for the link; they're terrific.  Tell
> me, please, are the books spiral notebooks with blank
> pages?  or regular lined notebooks with plain paper
> pasted in?  or art sketchbooks?  Did you purchase them
> in bulk?  Also, have you previously shared your list
> of journal assignments?  Compliments to you and those
> 9th graders.  J.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> ---
> To unsubscribe go to
> http://www.getty.edu/education/teacherartexchange/unsubscribe.html
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: The Tracer
From: Rachel Smith <rsmith@columbus.rr.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 11:11:25 -0400
X-Message-Number: 5
Mike,
I used to have one and ended up giving it away.  The projected images 
were not very clear and not much larger than the original.
Rachel Smith
Art Educator
Barrett Middle School Urban Academy
Columbus, Ohio
On Thursday, September 22, 2005, at 07:14  PM, Occasm@aol.com wrote:
> Wondering if anyone has any experience with "The Tracer" by ARtograph.
> bAsically an economical opaque projecter. I want to use it to enlarge 
> student
> drawings. Not necessarily for a mural though.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike Sacco
> Paul J. Gelinas JHS
> Setauket, NY
>
> ---
> To unsubscribe go to
> http://www.getty.edu/education/teacherartexchange/unsubscribe.html
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mike Sacco's visual journals
From: Occasm@aol.com
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 11:14:28 EDT
X-Message-Number: 6
Thanks for looking at these and I'm glad you like them.
   I opened up the course last year with having the kids design their own 
cover. Took maybe three periods to do this. I told them to buy small 5x7ish
blank 
sketchbooks. I had the local hardware/school supply store stock up on them, 
but they're available in the office supply chains as well.
   I gave two entries a week. ONe was to use one of my demos, such as a 
watercolor wash, an ink jet transfer, rubbings, etc. The other was "free" or
their 
choice. Sometimes I would say it was a free entry but they had to combine 
media. Two media, three, etc.
   By the end of the courseI was giving my strong group complete freedom
with 
two free entries a week.
   With all  entries, I stressed "working the page" meaning I wanted them to
really make maximum use of the space and activate it as well.
    I also stressed experimentation. I showed them burned edges, told girls 
to try make up, nail polish, etc. 
   I graded them on completeness, level of creativity/experimentation, and 
effort.
I checked the journals every three weeks and all entries had to be labeled 
and dated.
This was a lot of work for me but when I handed them back, it was show and 
tell time and the students loved seeing me spotlight the "strong pages".
   Any other questions, please don't hesitate to ask.
Mike Sacco
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mike Sacco's visual journals
From: "Diane C. Gregory" <dianegregory@grandecom.net>
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:25:02 -0600
X-Message-Number: 7
Did you ask students to bring in their visual journals to class on a daily
basis
for individual critiques and suggestions during each three week period?  Or,
did
you encourage them to work mostly on their own. Did you use any kind of peer
or
self-evaluation strategies?  The work displayed on the web site is so
strong, I
am wondering how this happened.  Great Work!
Cheers,
Diane
--
Dr. Diane C. Gregory
Director, Undergraduate & Graduate
Studies in Art Education
Texas Woman's University
Denton, TX  76204
dgregory@mail.twu.edu
940-898-2540
Quoting Occasm@aol.com:
> Thanks for looking at these and I'm glad you like them.
>    I opened up the course last year with having the kids design their own
> cover. Took maybe three periods to do this. I told them to buy small
5x7ish
> blank
> sketchbooks. I had the local hardware/school supply store stock up on
them,
> but they're available in the office supply chains as well.
>    I gave two entries a week. ONe was to use one of my demos, such as a
> watercolor wash, an ink jet transfer, rubbings, etc. The other was "free"
or
> their
> choice. Sometimes I would say it was a free entry but they had to combine
> media. Two media, three, etc.
>    By the end of the courseI was giving my strong group complete freedom
with
> two free entries a week.
>    With all  entries, I stressed "working the page" meaning I wanted them
to
> really make maximum use of the space and activate it as well.
>     I also stressed experimentation. I showed them burned edges, told
girls
> to try make up, nail polish, etc.
>    I graded them on completeness, level of creativity/experimentation, and
> effort.
> I checked the journals every three weeks and all entries had to be labeled
> and dated.
> This was a lot of work for me but when I handed them back, it was show and
> tell time and the students loved seeing me spotlight the "strong pages".
>    Any other questions, please don't hesitate to ask.
>
> Mike Sacco
>
> ---
> To unsubscribe go to
> http://www.getty.edu/education/teacherartexchange/unsubscribe.html
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Long email with tons of questions
From: StacieMich@aol.com
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 13:13:12 EDT
X-Message-Number: 8
Just an update.  So, I've been teaching now for about six weeks.  I've been 
going through it all...the highs and the lows, the frustrating parts and the
few rewarding parts.  It's been really hard, but I knew it would be.  I keep
trying new things.  Some things work, some things don't.  Some things work
for 
certain classes and not for others. Some things work one day and then for
some 
reason don't work the next day.  Here's what I've been doing so far:
I have rearranged my tables so that they are in a "U" formation with one in 
the center, like an island.  This allows for only four students per table
and 
six students at the one in the middle.  It works a little better because I
can 
see all of my students, but it is crowded, very crowded.  It also seems to 
work a little better because there are less students per table, and it feels
more 
like a typical classroom setup...less freedom.  I have assigned table 
captains.  The captain is responsible for getting the supplies for the
table, for 
keeping his or her table quiet and for making the students cleanup.  It
works 
well for the younger students, not as well for the middle schoolers.  I find
that 
most of the middle school students don't want the responsibility.
I'm still having trouble with too much noise and students getting out of 
their seats.  They simply can't seem to control themselves.  Cleanup is a 
nightmare when they use paints.  Simply a nightmare.  My sixth graders like
to make a 
mess, paint their hands, and then they can't seem to get the whole, "only
one 
table at a time will clean their brushes and rinse the cups."  They all want
to get up at once no matter what I tell them.  Or they don't listen and
won't 
clean up when I ask, and then only half of the class has cleaned up by the
time 
the bell rings.
So, now I only allow half of the students to paint and the other half works 
on another project.  The next day we flip.  It helps a little.
I know that part of my problem is that I'm not hard enough on them.  So, I 
handed out two notes home on Friday.  The parents need to sign it and the 
student owes me a 150 word essay.  The next step is detention.  These two
students 
were talking during "silent art."  When it gets too loud, and I have to warn
them three times, I ask for silence.  They can't handle it AT ALL.  
I'm really not sure what to do.  Do I hand out detentions to the whole class
because they are talking during silent art?  I did buy a timer this weekend,
and I'm going to see if we can start MOnday's class with five minutes of 
silence just to set the tone.  I'm really not sure if it will work.  Any
ideas on 
how to keep the noise level down?  My mom says I simply should not allow any
talking, but they need to share supplies and ask for help often.  I've told
them 
that they must whisper, but they can't seem to keep it to a whisper. It's 
frustrating.
As for the cleanup, I need help there too.  It's just so hard when it's 33 
students.  That's why I'm only allowing half of them to paint at a time.  I 
could use more tips though.  I keep their supplies in bins, and I inspect
the bins 
before they can line up.  I explain that their portfolios must be stacked 
neatly on the table, that their supply bin should be organized with the lid
off 
for me to inspect, and that they must be sitting quietly.  After I inspect
the 
bin, I allow the captain to put up the bin and portfolios, and that table
can 
line up.  It works better, but it's still not perfect.
I also want to start some sort of incentive program.  I've bought two
charts, 
one for my elementary classes and one for the middle school classes.  For 
elementary, I figured I could do it by day, as in whichever class on that
day has 
the most stars will get a reward the next class.  I have the elementary kids
only once a week for the whole year.  As for the prize, I'm thinking bucks
and 
then allowing them to cash them in at the end of the month or every two 
weeks?  For the middle school, the tables in each class would compete.
Whichever 
table in the class had the most stars at the end of the week would get bucks
the following Monday.  I only have them for nine weeks, but I see them every
day.  As an incentive to be a good captain, I thought the captains could get
two 
bucks while the other students at that table would get one.  I need help 
figuring this all out.  How should we keep track of the bucks?  Should they
hold on 
to them?  Should I?  What if they lose them?  I need a system that will be 
easy, not a lot of work for me or else it won't work.  I won't have time.
How 
should I decide which tables get stars, which don't?  If a student is acting
up 
at a table, should I stick something on it and explain that the table has 
lost it's star for the day?  It's difficult because I have a total of 16 
different classes a week.  Also, what should the rewards be?  I have
stickers and 
pencils for the little ones.  I have some other things like cute notepads
and 
calendars for the older ones.  As far as candy, I'm a little nervous about
it.  
What if a student isn't supposed to eat sugar?  If it's candy, it needs to
be 
something they can eat quickly.  My mom suggested the mini twizzlers that
come 
in bulk.  
Attitude:
Some of my students are starting to give me attitude when they get into 
trouble.  They get angry and turn on me, and it's actually quite hurtful.  I
had a 
student goof off in the hallway the other day for about 3 minutes before he 
entered my class.  Then he asked to use the restroom and I told him that he
had 
wasted three minutes in front of my class and should have gone then.  He got
angry and threatened to pee in my garbage can.  I was outraged.  I should
have 
given him a detention, but I think I was just so disappointed and shocked.  
This student was a problem in the beginning of the year because he was
always 
goofing off and getting out of his seat.  Then all of a sudden he started 
working, and I realized that he was my most talented student.  For the past
three 
weeks, I've been beaming with pride whenever I walked by his table and saw
him 
working hard.  I've been bragging to others about his talent and how proud I
am 
of him.  He's never spoken to me in this way, and I was so hurt when this 
happened.  I know I made a mistake when I yelled at him in front of the
whole 
class and asked him to come up to me and apologize.  I probably should have
told 
him to sit down, gotten the other students working and then taken him
outside 
to speak privately with him.  I should have given him a detention.
I'm still having so much trouble with the whole classroom management.
People 
tell me I'm too nice, that I have to be a bitch...yet I feel like I'm always
yelling.  I've tried talking to the kids, showing respect, asking for their 
ideas, but the truth is that middle school students don't want to be
reasoned 
with.  They really don't respect you more if you try to be diplomatic and
reason 
with them.  I've tried being mean, giving them behavior forms to sign, but 
they just get angry or cry.  It doesn't really improve the behavior in the
long 
run.  Sometimes I let too many things slide simply because I'm tired, don't 
want to do the paperwork, or am too busy helping the class.  
I'm also having so much trouble with the helpless behavior of my students, 
especially the sixth graders.  They really cannot work on their own.  I feel
lik 
I give simple explanations, show examples, walk them through it...but they 
never seem to "get it" and will ask me over and over what they should be
doing.  
I'll review the same thing every day for a week, ask students to explain it 
back to me to make sure they know what to do...but then I still get like 10
or 
more students who haven't paid attention and are completely lost.  They
can't 
seem to figure things out, or it's as if they are too lazy to try.  They
want 
me to do it for them, and I've started telling them that they need to figure
it out or ask their captain.  Any ideas on this?
Thanks so much!!!
Stacie
So yeah, these are some of the issues I'm still having.  
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mike Sacco's visual journals
From: Occasm@aol.com
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 13:37:50 EDT
X-Message-Number: 9
No, Diane they were not required to bring them to class each day. They all 
were required to have a small folder or heavy duty zip lock bag in their 
backpack. This was their tool kit. In reality some did this but many wound
up keeping 
their art supplies at home. I told them to keep materials on them so they 
could either work on entries at home or during free/study hall periods. But
yes, 
this was  independent stuff. This was a chance for them to really create and
take full ownership of their stuff and not feel constrained by some of my 
project's requirements and objectives. 
   No peer critiques, just a half a period or so of me spotlighting journal 
entires. At the very end of the course we had a party and all books were
left 
out to see. Of course there was some sharing during class time as well, but
not 
intiated by me. It just happenned. It's funny because even kids who weren't 
enrolled in any art classes would come up to me and  say that they saw such
and 
such's journal and how awesome it was. So the sharing had an outside the 
classroom peer element as well.
  I had two of these classes last year and my books were much stronger from 
my later group. I did less demoing and really left them on their own. They
had 
seen the previous clases' books during the year and were really into
starting 
their own. THey, as I said, were very motivated,  and pretty talented.
MOstly 
honors kids and many in the music program as well. 
  In retrospect i think my praise during spotlighting times really helped 
because they didn't, as one girl mentioned to me, want to let me down. Also,
I 
think the more gifted ones had a slight competitive thing going on.
   Also, the girls books were, as so often is the case at this level, so,
so, 
much stronger than the boys. Poetry, song lyrics, and other things became 
their inspiration. I did suggest some of these things but they brought so
much to 
it themselves.
   I'm not doing these right now with my new classes. Instead I'm trying 
altered books which I will start in class and will then have them turn in
theme 
bassed entries. A slightly different approach but I will have to see if
there's 
a difference. My new group is also not as strong is my groups last year.
Mike Sacco
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: The Tracer
From: Occasm@aol.com
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 14:09:17 EDT
X-Message-Number: 10
Thanks for all those who responed on this one. I guess I will use the 
overhead too.
Mike Sacco
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Long email with tons of questions
From: Bunki  Kramer <bkramer@srvusd.k12.ca.us>
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 11:14:28 -0700
X-Message-Number: 11
> Just an update.  So, I've been teaching now for about six weeks.
Would it help you if you realized that all new teachers go through this
stage of "new teacher" to the students and they are testing you everyday to
see what buttons they can push or what their limits are with you? You
haven't a "reputation" yet so they don't know if you mean business or not.
Secondly, never take ANYTHING personal. It's normal for things to come out
of their mouths before engaging brain. It's not YOU, it's the situation.
Don't reprimand a middle schooler in front of peers...dangerous. Pull them
outside or alone in a corner and give them plenty of uncomfortable listening
time from you before you open your mouth. This gives them extra time to
think about what they did, ponder it, and extra uncomfortable waiting time
to see what you are going to do about it. Don't hesitate to use consequences
when necessary. That "pee in the trashcan" should have been dealt with
IMMEDIATELY with a trip to the office and a detention to follow. That was
out of line and he knew it.
 
>I have assigned table
> captains.  The captain is responsible for getting the supplies for the
table,
>...I find > that > most of the middle school students don't want the
>responsibility.
Maybe what I do might be helpful to you. I stash all my supplies in
different spots in the room. When we begin, I mention all the supplies they
will need. As I discuss them, they decide amongst themselves at the table
who will get what. All this is done before anyone moves. This way you don't
have 38 kids in one spot of the room and everyone has responsibility. When
we paint or whatever, the brush person at the table washes all the brushes,
the water person, empties all the water, pencil person collects all the
pencils, etc. This way they get to decide which responsibility they do that
particular day and they see everyone at their table pitching in.
 
> I'm still having trouble with too much noise and students getting out of
> their seats.  They simply can't seem to control themselves.
Yes they can. Let them know you EXPECT it. Don't paint if they can't handle
it. Some days my beginning 6thers at the start of the year are the same way
and we clean up 30 mins. early if they can't handle it. If one person is out
of line, we all clean up. That goes for handling tools too. If you can get
them to police each other to follow rules, it works. Peer pressure is a
beautiful thing.
 
> I know that part of my problem is that I'm not hard enough on them.
Remember you are setting your reputation right now. If you want to be a door
mat, don't follow through with consequences.
> These two > students > were talking during "silent art."
Silent art is dangerous too when you've got over 30 kids. It's "test the
teacher" time. The teacher against the students. Wanna go there? Don't set
yourself up unless you have good consequences and plan to follow through.
Personally...silent art never worked for me. Putting stuff away has worked
better.
>Any ideas > on > how to keep the noise level down?
Have you tried music? That works if I keep it low enough so they have to be
quieter to hear it. Not quiet enough, no music.
> I also want to start some sort of incentive program.
If you use bucks, let them know if they lose them, they lose their cash-in
privilege. It's like money. You lose it, you're without. I personally think
kids don't need incentives. If they do, then they aren't learning
responsibility so much as learning "I get something if I follow rules". I
have a prize bowl for those I see doing something extra like to help a
friend or clean for a friend. These are little toys I buy at the dollar
store...like 20 little dinosaurs for $1, etc. Often I'll bring back samples
from a NAEA convention and stock my bowl. I find these silly little items
more "immediate" feedback then bucks.
> As far as candy, I'm a little nervous about it.
> What if a student isn't supposed to eat sugar?  If it's candy, it needs to
be
> something they can eat quickly.  My mom suggested the mini twizzlers that
come
> in bulk. 
For the very reasons you mention, our middle school doesn't allow candy
rewards. 
> I'm also having so much trouble with the helpless behavior of my students,
> especially the sixth graders. ..but then I still get like 10 or
> more students who haven't paid attention and are completely lost.  They
can't
> seem to figure things out, or it's as if they are too lazy to try.  They
want
> me to do it for them, and I've started telling them that they need to
figure
> it out or ask their captain.  Any ideas on this?
You're doing the right thing. Explain it to them no more than 2-3 times,
then tell them to ask a tablemate. They are needy still and want the
individual attention they probably got in elementary school. If they learn
they have to listen to directions, they respond. If you say it over and over
and over and over again, they will come to expect an answer at any time from
you. 
Two things someone long ago told me that I keep with me always..."Middle
schoolers will give you exactly what you expect of them...whatever bar you
set" and "everyday is a new day".
And...humor will defused almost any situation but that has to come from you.
And when you use it in a difficult situation, it's appreciated by all
involved.  Toodles.....Bunki
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Long email with tons of questions
From: Occasm@aol.com
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 14:54:56 EDT
X-Message-Number: 12
It seems like only yesterday when Bunki sent me much of the same info you're
getting here. Much of her insight and methods got me through my hellacious 
first year in middle school. Stacie, I know I sent you an email off list and
some 
of my comments were very similiar. Bunki's methods and approaches with this 
age level are very effective. 
   Before they can truly create work that they and you will be proud of, you
must be able to control the room and gain their respect. Your first year
goal 
is to primarily cement a reputation that allows for no shinanigans, but does
allow them to achieve their personal best.
Mike Sacco
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: I need an art project based on Leonardo Da Vinci
From: "Theresa Parker" <tlparker77@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 12:19:42 -0700
X-Message-Number: 13
Have a collection of plants, pinecones, and other interesting objects 
reminiscent of Da Vinci's sketches and offer these to the students as worthy
subjects to observe and sketch.  Use this as an opportunity to practice 
sketching from life.  Emphasize the fact that DaVici made thousand of 
sketches, sketched ideas out before painting them, and so forth.  You could 
offer them cream or beige paper to draw on, and offer sketching pencils or 
fine-line pens.
Theresa
Gig Harbor, WA
<BLOCKQUOTE style='PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #A0C6E5
2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px'><font 
style='FONT-SIZE:11px;FONT-FAMILY:tahoma,sans-serif'><hr color=#A0C6E5 
size=1>
From:  <i>Sharon Blackwood &lt;ziadawn@gmail.com&gt;</i><br>Reply-To:  
<i>&quot;TeacherArtExchange Discussion Group&quot; 
&lt;teacherartexchange@lists.pub.getty.edu&gt;</i><br>To:  
<i>&quot;TeacherArtExchange Discussion Group&quot; 
&lt;teacherartexchange@lists.pub.getty.edu&gt;</i><br>Subject:  
<i>[teacherartexchange] I need an art project based on Leonardo Da 
Vinci</i><br>Date:  <i>Sat, 24 Sep 2005 01:35:44 -0600</i><br>&gt;I teach 
K-5 art at 2 elemenart schools. I am in each of their<br>&gt;classrooms for 
about 45 minutes every two weeks. For the next two<br>&gt;weeks I will be 
covering Leonardo Da Vince. I will show a power  point<br>&gt;presentation 
about him for the first 10 minutes, then I will have<br>&gt;about 30 minutes
left for an art project. Any ideas? Thanks<br>&gt;<br>&gt;---<br>&gt;To 
unsubscribe go 
to<br>&gt;http://www.getty.edu/education/teacherartexchange/unsubscribe.html
<br></font></BLOCKQUOTE>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: freedom of expression
From: StacieMich@aol.com
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 16:36:28 EDT
X-Message-Number: 14
What types of things do you have in your treasure box?  I have kids grades 
3-8 and need some ideas.  Thanks!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Some sort of new work
From: StacieMich@aol.com
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 17:00:06 EDT
X-Message-Number: 15
I love the journals!  What types of free assignments did you give them?
I've 
been having trouble getting my middle school students into their
sketchbooks. 
 Most of them just leave them in the class and never take them home and
never 
do homework assignments.  I'd love to get them excited about keeping a 
sketchbook.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Long email with tons of questions
From: StacieMich@aol.com
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 17:16:25 EDT
X-Message-Number: 16
Such good advice, thanks.  I know that I am making so many mistakes, and I 
realize it as soon as I do it.  Then I just get angry at myself and wonder
why I 
made such a poor decision.  I don't have children and have never dealt with 
them, so this is so new to me.  Disciplining is hard for me because I've
always 
been the type of person who never wants to make people upset.  I know that I
need to get over all of that and do what is best for my students and best
for 
me.  It's just been hard.  I like the idea of asking the student to stand in
a 
corner while I finish talking to the class and then deal with the student 
privately.  I don't think I am allowed to kick a student out of my classroom
unless there is a fight.  I could have written him up a detention however.
I also 
noticed that he was chewing gum, and I believe I'm allowed to give him a 
detention for that as well...so I know that if I catch him chewing gum on
Monday, 
I need to follow through.  I think I'm just scared, maybe afraid that he
will 
turn on me, which is such a pathetic excuse.  I know that I'm the teacher
and 
the person who needs to demand respect and have control of the situation.  I
know that if I worry about my students getting angry with me and
retaliating, 
I've given them control.  
About the supply and cleanup issue, I simply don't have room to put the 
supplies out in different sections of the room.  All I have is one skinny
counter.  
I'm am worried that the students won't be able to decide who will get what.
There always seems to be one person doing everything while the others just
sit 
there.  How do I make sure that all students are helping?
I do think that I'm definitely going to ask them to clean up early if they 
get out of hand.  I actually announced it on Friday, and then they suddenly
got 
quiet.  I've tried the music thing, but it didn't seem to work.  Even when I
allowed them to pick the radio station, they were still loud!  I kept
turning 
the music lower, but they stopped caring.  Frustrating.  So, if they get too
loud, I should simply ask them to clean up?  Then should they sit there
reading 
or with their heads down or what?
As for your prize bowl.  Do you let them pick something out?
One good thing is that I have a new batch of middle school students in three
weeks.  I'm hoping that I can take what I've learned and not make the same 
mistakes.  I really want the next 9 weeks to go smoother, that's why I'm
trying 
to figure out a system now.  In a way, I feel sorry for these kids because
they 
were like my guinea pigs!  
Thanks again!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: [teacherartexchange tons of questions
From: "Rick Larson" <jrlarson51@comcast.net>
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 16:35:18 -0500
X-Message-Number: 17
Stacie, You'll get it- it isn't easy at first- 2nd year is better, because 
you have experienced it all the first year, and know what to avoid.  To help
you now, though, leave the seating this way for awhile- to see really if it 
is better or not.  I have better luck with 4 at a table- is there room for 
another table to spread them out more?  Spreading them out definitely helps.
> I have rearranged my tables so that they are in a "U" formation >
I'm still having trouble with too much noise and students getting out of
> their seats.
Stick with the table captian idea- just give them an incentive this year, to
be a captian.
So, now I only allow half of the students to paint and the other half works
You are making more work for yourself by doing two things at once, but if it
is working, stick with it.>
>>
> I know that part of my problem is that I'm not hard enough on them.
Be firm- or they will eat you for lunch! Never yell.  They know they've won 
if you yell. It actually gives them control .(IMO)
It is great that you sent notes home.  Do you have a phone in your room? 
Have the first disruptive student use it to call home to say they are 
staying after school for detention.  You will have the class' attention. 
You can't do this for little ones.
I call work time "studio time" and explain that when artists work in their 
studios, they don't sit and chit chat.  I'll say that I like the way so and 
so is ready for studio time.- funny, but my 6th's still respond to it and 
get settled.  It works better for little ones though- (i like the way 
that..)
>
> I did buy a timer this weekend,
> Try it, but to me a bell is more of a distraction.
I do reward kids.- the little ones get paper trophys that I print off a clip
art program and make copies, the 3-6 get art dollars- they save 4- and then 
go to the bucket.  I have all sorts of stuff in the bucket, from gushers, 
suckers, to toothpaste( freebies from the dentist), pencils, cheapo toys 
that I cleaned out from my drawers at home - I put an old wallet in there, 
that a 6th grade boy was so glad to get.
> talking, but they need to share supplies and ask for help often.
They should raise their hand for help. Whisper to them when you go to help 
them.
>
> As for the cleanup, I need help there too.  It's just so hard when it's 33
> students.  That's why I'm only allowing half of them to paint at a time.
Tell your administrators and counselors this- Then clean-up earlier  and 
tell them we will try to get clean-p done in ten min in the future as a 
goal- but take fifteen if that is what it takes.  Do a really fun project 
that they will want to work on, and tell them if they clean-up under the 
fifteen min, then Maybe next time they will work another 5 min.
  I
> could use more tips though.  I keep their supplies in bins, and I inspect 
> the bins
> before they can line up.
Can the captians check and turn in bins?  (offer an incentive to the 
captians- have them sign a sheet also saying that they checked bin # 
whatever 6th period.-
I explain that their portfolios must be stacked
> >
>  the most stars will get a reward the next class.
You'll go broke- try a paper incentive- that doesn't cost you money- they 
can save their $$ and get a special reward that they truly earn and it will 
keep your costs down.  Also, you can put in the newsletter that you are 
looking for parents to donate rewards for the art students- ..
  How should we keep track of the bucks?  Should they hold on
> to them?
Yes- Too bad if they lose them- they should keep better track of them...
  How
> should I decide which tables get stars, which don't?  I would reward 
> students with praise first- I don't think it is fair to punish the whole 
> table. Stick with the bucks- pass them out to only the kids who followed 
> your room rules.
If a student is acting up
> at a table, should I stick something on it and explain that the table has
> lost it's star for the day?  It's difficult because I have a total of 16
> different classes a week.  I have 22- you can do it.
Also, what should the rewards be?  I have stickers and
> pencils for the little ones. I think you're stuck with this for this year,
> but go with something Free next year for the little ones- they're happy 
> with a high 5 or hug..
 I> Some of my students are starting to give me attitude when they get into
> trouble.  They get angry and turn on me, and it's actually quite hurtful. 
> It is hard not to take theis personally, but you just can't- remember they
> are very hormonal.  Ask the student calmly and quietly that you need to 
> speak with them in the hall- Tell them that you're disappointed and that 
> you know that they can do better-
For the one who wanted to pee in the trash,   make him a helper- give him an
important task.  Have him demonstrate a drawing technique or something.
You will get better at when to take what approach.  When they work quietly, 
walk around and give them each a buck.
Sorry this is so long- hang in there. Take a calgon bath at the end of the 
day, and keep a small stash of chocolate for yourself.
Betsy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: I need an art project based on Leonardo Da Vinci
From: Harold Olejarz <holejarz@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 17:48:51 -0400
X-Message-Number: 18
Hi,
Take a look at Re-inventing Mona Lisa
http://www.wyckoffschools.org/eisenhower/teachers/olejarz/digitalimaging/mo=
na/index.html
--
Harold Olejarz
www.olejarz.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Stacie: visual journals
From: Occasm@aol.com
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 17:53:50 EDT
X-Message-Number: 19
Stacie,
Honestly, I don't know if it can really be pulled off below 9th grade. I
give 
7 and 8th grade sketchbook homework and it's nothing like this. I also have 
trouble getting it from 8th graders. I just gave out my famous design your
own 
CD and I got probably 80% back. other assignments it's much less. It seems
the 
idea of keeping a personal sketch diary/journal really hits home when
they're 
a little older. My collegue, after seeing me use smaller books for my
ninths, 
started using smaller books for her 7th graders. I think for all grades,
that 
having a smaller page to fill sometimes makes it easier. These journals are 
about 5 1/2 by 8 1/2.
   Check my last couple of posts on the list. I show techniques only and 
subject matter is usually free.
Mike Sacco
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: I need an art project based on Leonardo Da Vinci
From: "Sharon Blackwood" <ziadawn@msn.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 15:55:41 -0600
X-Message-Number: 20
Thanks Theresa, Da Vinci is so complex, but this project is simple enough 
for them, informative and I'm sure they wil enjoy it.
Sharon
Las Cruces, NM
Have a collection of plants, pinecones, and other interesting objects
reminiscent of Da Vinci's sketches and offer these to the students as worthy
subjects to observe and sketch.  Use this as an opportunity to practice
sketching from life.  Emphasize the fact that DaVici made thousand of
sketches, sketched ideas out before painting them, and so forth.  You could
offer them cream or beige paper to draw on, and offer sketching pencils or
fine-line pens.
Theresa
Gig Harbor, WA
<BLOCKQUOTE style='PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #A0C6E5
2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px'><font
style='FONT-SIZE:11px;FONT-FAMILY:tahoma,sans-serif'><hr color=#A0C6E5
size=1>
From:  <i>Sharon Blackwood <ziadawn@gmail.com></i><br>Reply-To:
<i>"TeacherArtExchange Discussion Group"
<teacherartexchange@lists.pub.getty.edu></i><br>To:
<i>"TeacherArtExchange Discussion Group"
<teacherartexchange@lists.pub.getty.edu></i><br>Subject:
<i>[teacherartexchange] I need an art project based on Leonardo Da
Vinci</i><br>Date:  <i>Sat, 24 Sep 2005 01:35:44 -0600</i><br>>I teach
K-5 art at 2 elemenart schools. I am in each of their<br>>classrooms for
about 45 minutes every two weeks. For the next two<br>>weeks I will be
covering Leonardo Da Vince. I will show a power  point<br>>presentation
about him for the first 10 minutes, then I will have<br>>about 30 minutes
left for an art project. Any ideas? Thanks<br>><br>>---<br>>To
unsubscribe go
to<br>>http://www.getty.edu/education/teacherartexchange/unsubscribe.html
></font></BLOCKQUOTE>
_________________________________________________________________
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar ? get it now! 
http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: I need an art project based on Leonardo Da Vinci
From: "Sharon Blackwood" <ziadawn@msn.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 16:10:13 -0600
X-Message-Number: 21
Hi, Nice idea, inventors like Da Vinci himself.
>From: Harold Olejarz <holejarz@gmail.com>
>Reply-To: "TeacherArtExchange Discussion Group" 
><teacherartexchange@lists.pub.getty.edu>
>To: "TeacherArtExchange Discussion Group" 
><teacherartexchange@lists.pub.getty.edu>
>Subject: Re: [teacherartexchange] I need an art project based on Leonardo 
>Da Vinci
>Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 17:48:51 -0400
>
>Hi,
>
>Take a look at Re-inventing Mona Lisa
>http://www.wyckoffschools.org/eisenhower/teachers/olejarz/digitalimaging/mo
na/index.html
>
>--
>Harold Olejarz
>www.olejarz.com
>
>---
>To unsubscribe go to
>http://www.getty.edu/education/teacherartexchange/unsubscribe.html
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: [teacherartexchange tons of questions
From: Ann Heineman <aiheineman@prodigy.net>
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 18:47:04 -0400
X-Message-Number: 22
Hi Stacie, and all the other new art teachers out there in our
group,-Welcome!!!
   =20
    This book was recommended on the list about a year ago and it prompted
me to get a copy for myself (even though I am retired, I still like a good
read about the education profession.)
    "Educating Esm=E9:  Diary of a Teacher's First Year" by Esm=E9 Raji
Codell,
1999.  It is very insightful, on the mark and hilarious.
        Ann-on-y-mouse in Columbus
        Art teacher, K-5, retired,
        and taking Beginning Lithography at OSU this quarter!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Too Strange a Picture
From: Woody Duncan <woodyduncan@comcast.net>
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 17:11:22 -0600
X-Message-Number: 23
Frani and I were out today but I didn't have my
camera along. There was a small blue car in the
middle of this parking lot. It was surrounded
by hundreds of pigeons, many on the hood, the
roof and under the vehicle. At $3.00 a gallon
I decided not to drive back with my camera to
see if it was still there. The owner will need
a handful of quarters for the car wash.
			Woody
-- 
	Woody, Retired in Albuquerque
		mailto:woodyduncan@comcast.net
35 Quality Middle School Art Lessons
in powerpoint format, on one CD $17 (includes shipping)
http://www.taospaint.com/QualityLessons.html
Ordering Address: PO Box 91703
Albuquerque, NM    87199-1703
?The function of the overwhelming majority of your artwork
is simply to teach you how to make the small fraction
of your artwork that soars.?              from: ?Art & Fear?
Woody's Watercolor Portfolio:
http://www.taospaint.com/Portfolio/Watercolors.html
Newest Fantastic Triplet Pics:
http://www.taospaint.com/Spring05/Photos.html
Your Invite to Woody's Exhibit:
http://www.taospaint.com/ArtShow/Invite.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Wonderfully Illustrated Children's Book
From: Woody Duncan <woodyduncan@comcast.net>
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 17:43:31 -0600
X-Message-Number: 24
Today I discovered a wonderful children's book
illustrated by Albuquerque's own Jae Drummond.
Jae's watercolors are beautiful, and now she has
a children's book to her credit. I just ordered
a copy for the fantastic triplets. I'll get Jae
to autograph it to them. Please check out this
book for yourself. It's for sale through
Barnes and Nobel for $9.95.
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?isbn=0760766924&
itm=1
				Woody
-- 
	Woody, Retired in Albuquerque
		mailto:woodyduncan@comcast.net
35 Quality Middle School Art Lessons
in powerpoint format, on one CD $17 (includes shipping)
http://www.taospaint.com/QualityLessons.html
Ordering Address: PO Box 91703
Albuquerque, NM    87199-1703
?The function of the overwhelming majority of your artwork
is simply to teach you how to make the small fraction
of your artwork that soars.?              from: ?Art & Fear?
Woody's Watercolor Portfolio:
http://www.taospaint.com/Portfolio/Watercolors.html
Newest Fantastic Triplet Pics:
http://www.taospaint.com/Spring05/Photos.html
Your Invite to Woody's Exhibit:
http://www.taospaint.com/ArtShow/Invite.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: [teacherartexchange tons of questions
From: StacieMich@aol.com
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 19:53:31 EDT
X-Message-Number: 25
Please don't apologize for the length...I should!  THe more advice I get,
the 
better.  
Tables:
I don't have any more tables and have begged for some.  I ended up bringing 
in an old bent up card table to put in the corner so that I could have a
place 
to sit a student alone.  Even if I do get an extra table or two, the room is
very small.  My students are really on top of each other.  Before this
seating 
arrangement, I had 8 to a table (two rectangular tables pushed together to 
make a big table!)  Now there are four to a small table.  They are very
squished.
Painting:
It just seems impossible to get 33 kids to clean up in under 20 minutes.  
I've tried 15 minutes and it was a disaster.  I walked around with a trash
can 
and asked them to dump the paper plates and napkins.  Then by table, they
were 
supposed to rinse their four brushes and rinse out the two cups of water.  
That's it!  They couldn't do it!  That's why I thought it would be easier if
only 
16 of them were painting at a time.
Behavior:
No phone in the room and we are forbidden to use our cell phones.  We cannot
give a detention unless a student has been completely disrespectful, has 
destroyed school property, is late to class or is chewing gum.  For
everything 
else, we have to go through a system of behavior logs, rule writing and
essays.  
It's really kind of a pointless system if you ask me.  Students really don't
care about writing an essay.  They just won't do it.  Then they get
detention, 
and they don't even really care about that it seems.  
Rewards:
I actually haven't given out any rewards yet, so I'm really not locked in to
anything.  The kids have no idea that I've been thinking of incentives at
all. 
 Some teachers say I shouldn't even start it, but I thought that it might 
encourage them to do better if they saw some students getting rewards.  I
was 
going to do a buck system and allow them to cash them in every so
often...maybe 
ever two weeks or once a month...but I kind of like the idea of them having
to 
earn four in order to get a reward.  I might do that.  I need to buy a
bucket 
or bowl to put stuff in.  So far I have cute pencils, erasers, stickers, 
cheapo notepads and mini calendars and some stuff from the dollar store.
Nothing 
is over $2.00.  
Maybe I could have captains check the bins, but don't I need some way to
make 
sure the captain is doing his or her job?  How should I reward the captain
so 
that it's beneficial to be one?
I have given some of my troublemakers jobs so that they know I'm not against
them and because I hope that giving them responsibility will help.
Sometimes 
it does, sometimes it doesn't.  I did make a point to ask the "peeing in the
trash" boy to help me pass out rulers on Friday.  
How do you keep your kids quiet?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Stacie: visual journals
From: StacieMich@aol.com
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 19:55:53 EDT
X-Message-Number: 26
Thanks for the help.  I'm trying to decide if I want to do sketchbooks at
all 
next nine weeks.  I get a new bunch of kids, so I'm trying to figure out how
to make my class more successful.  I had the group I have now make the 
sketchbooks, but I'm thinking that maybe I'll ask my next group to just buy
a little 
sketchbook.  I'm just worried that some can't afford it.  I'm wondering if I
should chuck the whole sketchbook idea.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Stacie: visual journals
From: Occasm@aol.com
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 20:37:34 EDT
X-Message-Number: 27
STacie,
I keep saying I'm going to dump my 7th and 8th grade sketchbooks but I
don't. 
I keep them around because if someone finishes a step early, I allow them to
work on the homework during classtime. I also have extra credit assignments 
for when they finish early. I tell them they will always have some art to
work 
on. When I first started they were used to getting a lot of free time and
even 
free periods from the former (now retired thank god) art teacher.
Mike Sacco
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Stacie: visual journals
From: StacieMich@aol.com
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 23:30:33 EDT
X-Message-Number: 28
Yes, my students finish at such different rates!  Some really take their 
time, and others just rush through it.  I hate just giving them  free
drawing 
time.  I've told them before to work on their sketchbook homework, but they
don't! 
 Sometimes I'll begin a new project even before some students have finished 
the old one, just so that the quick students have something to work on.
It's 
tough though, to keep everyone up to speed.  I've thought about trying a
choice 
based program, but to be honest, I'm just not ready for that.  I don't have 
nearly enough supplies and really no way to set up stations right now.  I
think 
I'm really just trying to survive this first year!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Stacie hang in there
From: Occasm@aol.com
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 23:48:06 EDT
X-Message-Number: 29
Stacie,
Trying to survive may seem accurate right now, but you will improve greatly 
if you remember what worked and what didn't. Teaching is constant
reflection.
   The Beauty of middle school is those new quarters. You will start again 
next quarter with new kids and it will be better. By the end of the year it
will 
be so much better.
  And mine don't always want to work on homwork or extra credit. I tell them
if they're not willing to make art, then they must stay in their seat and
not 
take anyone else off task. If they do there has to be a consequence. I have
an 
isolation table but I know you don't have this kind of space. 
   I was too nice in the beginning as well. Somehow you must learn to
toughen 
up a bit. 
Hang in there and just keep plugging along. 
Mike Sacco
---
END OF DIGEST
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