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RE: difficult class


From: kimberly herbert (kherbert_at_TeacherArtExchange)
Date: Sun Oct 28 2001 - 07:24:18 PST

(The last part of this is a Vent skip it if you want)
I agree and disagree with you at the same time. I don't want to have to
discipline for the Art/Music/PE/G&T teachers, but I also want to know if
there is a problem. The Art/Music/PE teachers and I work together to
solve problems in my class. I've enforced a punishment handed out by the
PE teacher (2 Days no recess). I stay late on Monday's to help the Music
teacher supervise dismissal of the Choir Students, and allow my kids to
come to class 15 minutes late on Fridays so they can have an additional
practice. I've explained to my students that being the last class and
following a chaotic 4th grade group ((1 second year teacher + 4 New
alternative certification teachers) + TAAS Writing test pressure +
regular TAAS pressure + the fact they have hired 2 teachers since school
started and had to move kids around = problem grade level)means they
have to be super good in the art class and help her clean up even if it
isn't all their mess.

My big problem is that the G&T pull out teacher complains about my kids
(and their lack of discipline and attitude) to me and everyone else, but
she does not follow through on my suggestions including the offer for me
to come by and pick up students with attitude and handle them myself.

(Venting begins)
Now my kids are talkers. They have been told most of their lives they
are better and smarter than anyone else (I'm working very hard to undo
that damage), so they have attitude. I also have given up on having the
students lined up when she comes to pick them up. One day they waited 15
minutes for her to get there. She was meeting with the principal, but
she could have asked for a message to be sent to me or a call on the
intercom. They have their materials ready on their desks and we usually
are on the floor reading. Also she takes my class's markers and crayons,
which I collected at the beginning of they year and use as a class set.
She got upset when I took a handful about 1/3 of each out of the box,
for the kids who don't go with her to use. She informed me I'm not
supposed to teach when the G/T kids are in her class. The "others" can
just play games or read! NOT in my room. She does special projects with
the identified students. I have special projects with the 5 who remain
in the classroom addressing their interests and needs.

The biggest problem I think actually comes from her. She is very busy
with a graduate degree, and the kids have voiced the opinion that they
feel she sees working with them as an interruption to her work on that
degree. I've not heard her say anything, but other teachers have found
her working on that her thesis when she cancelled their classes. I've
also had teachers who deal with my kids casually or as one of their
teachers ask, "What is Mrs. X problem with your kids? They are basically
a good group, but she really doesn't like them." (thanks for listening)

Kimberly Anne Herbert
-----Original Message-----
From: artappeal []
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 7:58 PM
To: ArtsEdNet Talk
Subject: Re: difficult class

> Their classroom teacher must be told, and he or she must stay with
> The teacher will not be happy, but its really their responsibility.
> Artie

I agree, it's nice to have the classroom teacher's support. However, I
don't feel it's their responsibility. In my opinion, if you let it be
that you are relying on the classrooms teacher's power, it undermines
own. I feel the classroom teacher should let the students know that if
are in trouble with the art teacher, they are also in trouble with
Rather like the support you expect from a parent.

Now, what to do? I say, set up your own SIMPLE system, stick to it. My
preference is time out (up to five min.) for disruptive behavior,
alone (in room, off by self) for continued disruptions, removal of any
material/tool that is misused (on purpose, or at wrong time) for rest of
class. For whole class shenanigans (rare) heads down for five min., if
continues, clean up and sit. If you are being disrespected, don't get
or return the disrespect, just separate the student (five min.) talk to
him/her after the time out. Good luck!