To Leslie Gajdatsy <gajdatsy.1>
I'm tardy getting to this, but have you seen or heard about the work of David Nash who uses condemned trees and does amazing sculptural forms and also plants trees and projects their growth. He has long experience with his medium and knows how green wood will respond as it dries. I have a catalog from an exhibition of his work and if you are interested, let me know and I will get more info for you.
Date: 10/31/98 12:58 PM
To: Cindy Cronn
artsednet-digest Saturday, October 31 1998 Volume 02 : Number 1040
This edition includes :
Re: National Standards and Assessment
Re: a question
Re: Mark Kistler's Draw Squad
Re: National Standards and Assessment
Re: artsednet-digest V2 #1037 Aesthetics @grade 2 ID:Uof A
pilgrims, k lesson
Re: Art & $ & Competition
Re: ID OSU
Re: ID OSU ecological art
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 06:55:18 EST
Subject: Re: National Standards and Assessment
In a message dated 10/31/98 3:24:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, meropi
This is a long post that addresses an issue that I consider very important.
Delete, if you wish. Reatha
<< Are you ready to let others determine what works for you and your
students? Is standardization really what we want in our art room? >>
I do not see having standards to which I teach and expect my students to reach
as a negative situation. But then I began setting standards for my students to
reach when I began teaching in 1969. I teach in a state that had a state
framework long before others considered it useful. You obviously misinterpret
the standards. They are meant as guidelines to help you ensure that you are
teaching what your students need to know. Your personal liberty will not be
lessened. Your students personal expression will not be diminished. They will
simply have more information with which to work.
By it's very nature teaching art, making art, stands outside of the cognitive
learning styles used in other subjects.
Art is a problem solving activity which can easily be learned in a problem
solving manner. How does that separate it from other content areas? We serve
our students best when we offer them information visually, orally, verbally,
and through demonstration followed by real world hands-on experiences. How do
you teach art if not in this manner? If we are not engaged cognitively, how
are we engaged? So our hands have minds of their own?
It's not that we couldn't teach art in the manner conducive to evaluation,
break down it's content areas so that we can prescribe what is valuable in
art, but isn't it conforming to rules that should be questioned in the first
Are you suggesting that we not teach the content of art simply to rebel
against rules? The components of art are simply guidelines garnered through
observation over thousands of years. So what do we do just ignore them because
they resemble rules? You have said yourself "...what is valuable in art,..."
If it is valuable should you not teach it?
Since most of us feel marginalized within our schools, with little support
from administrators, parents, teachers and even from our students, do we
accept the fact that in order to be taken seriously we must resort to
standardization and assessment?
Why should administrators, teachers, students or parents take anything
seriously that is being taught in a manner that suggests that there is nothing
to it? Teaching for learning is about setting standards for our students (do
the words goals or objectives also upset you?) and assessing to see if we have
taught what we meant to teach or do we need to reteach. There are many
recommendations for designing the assessment prior to teaching so that you
will be more likely to teach what the students need to know as a result of the
lesson. I think most do that subconciously without even realizing it. But if
the assessment is developed beforehand, then a rubric for the students to use
so that they know what you expect is easier to develop. Then assessment
becomes a joint effort. Which I think is good.
For the little that we might gain, is it worth what we will loose? I do not
look forward to teaching for a test, and that is not long in coming.
Well it is obvious that you see some gain. What exactly do you see yourself
losing? If you are one of the marginalized teachers that you describe, what do
you have to lose?
Just because there is a test doesn't mean that you must teach just those
items on the test. That would be insurmountably stupid. But most assessments
test for knowledge in general areas, not specific items. A standardized test
simply means that all students are tested on the same material. The standards
do not address specifics such as "rainsticks". So if your students have not
done a lesson in which a "rainstick", for example, was the expected product,
they will not suffer if you have taught lessons in which you addressed the
same elements of design, aesthetics, history, and criticism. Because that is
what the standards and the testing are all about.
And no the test is not long in coming. In fact we have already done a national
assessment. Be sure to watch the national teleconference on Dec. 1. Of course
I expect that should the results be less than desirable there will be many
diehards who will say, "Well see, you can't really test what we do." rather
than see the handwriting on the wall. And they will continue to moan and groan
about not being appreciated.
Will we break down the components of art to such a degree that the sheer joy
of creation must be put aside because we have more important things to teach??
If you are not teaching the components of design, what are you teaching?
Monkey-see-monkey-do? I have always questioned the concept that children can
enjoy doing what they have no idea how to do well.
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 07:15:40 -0500
From: Joseph Augusta <jaugusta>
Subject: Animation site!
Here's a great animation site for everyone--takes a few minutes to load,
then everything starts moving!
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 06:59:37 -0600
From: "Lily Kerns" <cwkerns>
Subject: Re: a question
>Please don't forget drama and dance...both of which teach critical thinking
>and perspective, just for example. All the art forms can and should be
>as a cohesive program in Art Education. Each form feeds into and from the
>others. For a truly well-rounded Art Education program, it is important
>(especially in light of the multiple intelligences theory) to teach visual
>art, music, dance and drama.
I always tell students that if their mind is dancing, their lines will
dance. And they need to let their pencils dance too.
I would suspect that this would be true for other subjects that benefit
from a bit of creative thinking.....
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 08:28:47 EST
Subject: Re: Mark Kistler's Draw Squad
I found my videos in the 'used bin' at a family video store near my home,
someone else said you can find out more about him at his web site. I haven't
checked it out yet, but here is the address. Good luck. My students LOVED
In a message dated 10/30/98 11:02:06 AM Central Standard Time,
<< Did you say how one can get these videos? I'd love to buy them.
I have nothing in the way of videos and I'm appalled at how lousy the
selection is at our ISD.
ann c. >>
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 09:34:20 -0600
From: Sharon Henneborn <heneborn>
Subject: National Standards
Chad, I am the Elementary Chair for the Art Educators of New Jersey.
At the recent State conference I chaired the Caucus for Elementary
Concerns.. ..The dominant concerns seem to be the standards and
Personally, I have welcomed the National Standards because they validate
my belief that we are responsible for much more than production.
I feel that most districts require us to teach our discipline with both
hands tied behind our backs, only pennies in our pockets, and clocks for
hearts and souls. With the standards I have a tool for demanding a full
measure! When I am held accountable I will gladly respond, "Give equal
measure and watch my dust.".
Sharon from NJ
***( I'm an Art Ed. student at the University of Wyoming. As an
>assignment, we are to post a question to the group, in hopes of getting
>an answer. I was wondering where people stood on the idea of
>standardizing Art Education on a National level? PLEASE give me a =
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 10:41:17 -0500
From: lindacharlie <lindacharlie>
Subject: Re: National Standards and Assessment
... Is standardization really what we want in our art room? ... do we
accept the fact that in order to be taken seriously we must resort to
> standardization and assessment? ...will we really become a valuable and accepted part of the school curriculum? is it worth what we will loose? ... Lots of questions, any answers?
> Sydni in New York <
Thanks for articulating this view so well, Sydni. For me it's "No, No,
No, and NO. In Michigan, standardized test scores, originally meant for
assessment, are being exploited by politicians, from gubernatorial
candidates to local school board members, and the media, to attack
public education and teacher unions, and hold teachers at large hostage,
in order to advance their own agenda. The use of these test scores by
realtors to influence housing purchases, causing significant economic
impact on whole communities, is another example of the extremes to which
standardized assessment is being abused. Assessment is important, but we
must insure that the information it provides is used properly - by the
assessors to improve instruction.
>By it's very nature teaching art, making art, stands outside of the
cognitive learning styles used in other subjects.<
Certain aspects of artistic knowledge such as formal and technical
understandings easily lend themselves to measurement. But how does one
standardize and assess the divergent thought process, or the
emotional/expressive content of a child's painting? In importance to the
art learning experience these are at least equal to ability to
manipulate a paint brush or define design elements. But can quality of
imagination or of feelings ever be measured fairly against a "norm"?
Creative expression baffles and defies the human propensity to measure,
characterize, generalize, streamline, compartmentalize, standardize, and
ultimately control every aspect of life.
In our eagerness to bring ourselves "up" to the same level of regard as
our academic counterparts, we would do well to examine what standardized
assessment has done for - or to - them.
Linda in the continuing golden autumn of Michigan
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 11:29:32 EST
Subject: Re: artsednet-digest V2 #1037 Aesthetics @grade 2 ID:Uof A
The other day I heard of "The Refrigerator Art Museum" on Sesame Street.
This seems like a great starting point for the aesthetic question of, " What
is good art?" in grade 2. I'm currently reading a book "Thinking Through
Aesthetics" by Marylin Stewart, she lists the questions of the philosophical
area of Aesthetics and by doing so has given me an overview of this bucket of
For practical application in your case I'll check with Dr Wayne Greer next
week to see what the Getty study on DBAE did in Los Angeles.
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 11:43:23 -0500
From: "Litesal" <Litesal>
Subject: pilgrims, k lesson
O.K. I know how some of us feel about holiday art projects, but here it
goes....The kindergartners are studying pilgrims, and I'd like to do a
lesson that coincides with their studies. I've racked my brains, and can't
seem to come up with anything worthwhile. Any ideas?
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 09:29:45 PST
From: "Michelle H. Harrell" <mmhar>
Subject: Re: Art & $ & Competition
I've enjoyed sitting back and listening to the discussion on NEA with
Mike and all. Joy's comment about art and sports brought up an
> Seems to me there is an outrageously disproportionate amount of
>money that goes to sports. I'm just waiting for the day when we BEGIN
>to give equal weight to art!
Last year, our baseball coach and I got into a friendly debate about the
amount of money that goes into school sports compared to all of the
arts. It's almost sickening how much money and attention is given to
sports while most art programs are scrapping to get money for the
crudest of supplies. His arguements were that schools build their
identity through their sports programs and the spirit of competition
(and receive a healthy revenue from those that attend the games). He
also brought up that an athletic scholarship would be almost the only
way many students from our low income area would ever attend college.
Other than contests and art shows, there doesn't seem to be many
opportunities for competition in art. I recently heard two teachers
present "Art Olympics" which their students do every year here in NC. It
sounds like healthy competition between middle school art clubs where
everyone is a winner. I'm going to go this year as an observer before I
recruit my students.
I think the way our individual schools distribute money between sports
programs, academics, and the arts is a reflection of our society.
How is the situation in your schools? Is sports given the spotlight
while art is given the backseat? How can we give art the COMPETITIVE
edge to draw students to the program? Or do we really want to
incorporate competition into art? What's your opinion?
Michelle H. Harrell
North Garner Middle School
Garner, North Carolina
* ~ "You can never do too much drawing."
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 10:59:20 -0600
From: Jason & Amy Metcalfe <jamet>
Subject: Re: ID OSU
In response to your inquiry regarding trees in ecological art, I have
some information to pass your way. My first reference does not
specifically focus on trees, however, I believe it provides a
complementary addition to ecological restoration. An American artist by
the name of Mel Chin focuses on ecological art through addressing issues
such as habitat devastation, land reclamation, and sustaining the
planet's diversity. There is a great resource about his work on the
It seems to me that finding ways to reclaim ecological zones would be
paramount to replanting trees (if that is one of your focuses). Chin's
work on a project entitled revival field (1990-present) looks at how an
artist can create metaphorical sculpture using a "reduction process"
similar to how sculptors work with wood or stone. Chin, however, is
"removing" contaminants from the soil with hyperaccumulator plants
(plants that leach contaminates out of the earth) as his "tools". I
think Chin's work could be included in a lesson about reclaiming
ecological environments through art and would be a great forerunner to
replanting fields of trees.
You also might like to check out the Barbara Westfall Gathering Places
site on the ArtsEdNet. Westfall is an artist who focuses on ecological
art as a way to bring people, community, and culture together.
Specifically her work entitled Daylighting the Woods. Westfall spent a
year working with young aspen trees and with open prairie controlled
burns. She photographically documented her work throughout the project
and exhibited it to illustrate the effects of, "human intervention
within the natural ecological systems." The address for this section of
this artsednet is:
Good luck on your research!
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 10:29:50 -0400
From: Leslie Gajdatsy <gajdatsy.1>
Hi!!! I'm investigating social restoration for a class project. My
focus is on ecology and trees. I've found information on Buster Simpson
and his art, I'm interested in other artists who use real trees as thier
medium. I've found lots of artists who photograph, paint, and draw
trees, thats not what I'm looking for! :-) I wold also like to
incorporate these artists ideas into my own (tangable) lesson and studio
project. Any Ideas ? ! . Hope so!!!!!!
(p.s. If Elizabeth Garber sees this, Good! I heard you have some great
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 12:19:58 -0600
From: Katherine Giltinan <k.giltinan>
>Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 16:46 -0500 (EST)
> Can someone tell me a resource for gypsolite(sp?) used for making
> molds? Does anyone have any other product that could might be used in
> place of gypsolite?
> You can respond directly: Gary_Eastty
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 11:42:23 -0600
From: Jason & Amy Metcalfe <jamet>
Subject: Re: ID OSU ecological art
In response to your inquiry regarding artists that manipulate the
landscape, I have a couple of suggestions. Architecture is a wonderful
example of environmental design: how art can interact with and
manipulate the landscape. One such architect who might be worth looking
at is Paolo Soleri and his work in progress called Arcosonti. Soleri
combines several philosophical themes in Arcosonti: specifially
community, utilitarian use of environmental resources, and involvement
and effects of time. Arcosonti is a unique project and example of
architecture that is rich with aesthetic questions. It is also
highlighted on the Artsednet at:
This same site has great information about an artist named Andy
Goldsworthy who also manipulates the environment in rich, organic ways
to create beautiful environmental designs. His work is temporary; the
elements often change his creations rapidly. He does photodocument his
work and there is an abundance of reference information about him. He,
consequently, is also one the Artsednet at:
You may also like to look at some artists who produce Earthworks, or
Land Art. Earthworks began to focus on location in art creation and was
championed in the 1960s by young avant-garde artists. Check out an art
history book and look up Robert Smithson or Michael Heizer.
You could also incorporate ancient works such as the Egyptian pyramids,
Stoneheng, Middle Eastern ziggurats, Zen rock gardens, American Indian
burial mounds, or historical works such as Mt. Rushmore into a great
lesson plans and ideas.
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 11:10:04 -0400
From: Mandy Rubino <rubino.6>
In developing a 'life-centered issue' for my art ed course, I have
chosen to explore artists who manipulate or use the landscape to create
art (such as Christo). Have any of you created lessons or community
projects that address this issue? Any help would be appreciated! Mandy
End of artsednet-digest V2 #1040
To post to the ArtsEdNet Talk Listserve, send e-mail to:
*To unsubscribe from the listserv, send e-mail to:
and type in the message area only: UNSUBSCRIBE
*To send a message to the List-Owner, send e-mail to:
*ArtsEdNet web site: http://www.artsednet.getty.edu/
------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------
Received: by internet.esu3.k12.ne.us with ADMIN;31 Oct 1998 12:55:26 U
Received: from web1.pub.getty.edu (web1.pub.getty.edu [188.8.131.52])
by orpheus.getty.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA12081;
Sat, 31 Oct 1998 10:48:30 -0800 (PST)
Received: (from majordom@localhost)
by web1.pub.getty.edu (8.8.6/8.8.6) id KAA04254
for artsednet-digest-outgoing; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 10:42:00 -0800 (PST)
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 10:42:00 -0800 (PST)
X-Authentication-Warning: web1.pub.getty.edu: majordom set sender to owner-artsednet-digest.edu using -f
From: owner-artsednet-digest.edu (artsednet-digest)
Subject: artsednet-digest V2 #1040