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Then it should not cause a backlash of defensive, bitter, self
congratulatory responses which raises questions which have little or
nothing to do with either message I sent (this is not referring to Karen's
questions). I refer everyone back to my original message in which I call
for a discussion on other topics involved with classroom management and art
work as punishment. For those of you who feel like your being attacked or
aggressively insist I list my resume, I suggest you ask yourself why you
have personalized a call for discourse.
>> I am certainly aware of the "real life" (I suppose that refers to
>teaching college as somehow not teaching) and since this seems relevant to
>you: I spent seven years teaching k-12 (1989-96)).
>Do you compare K - 12 with college? I certainly hope that you don't have
>the same kinds of classroom management problems we're dealing with at
>various ages in public schools. My experience has been that the two are as
>different as night and day. Something about wanting to be where you are, as
>opposed to having to be where you are.
Is responding to a passive inference that I don't live in the real world a
comparison of two disparate situations?
Once again this sort of questioning moves further and further from the
content of my original message.
>You wrote >Using "book work " as punishment sends the wrong message, period.
>But it can effectively be used to diffuse a situation -- students who are
>pulled to an observation mode rather than a participation mode, can not help
>but spend some of it in reflection on their behavior -- especially when
>doing something rather rote.
If you would read my original message carefully, and then read this
response in context, then you would realize I raised serious questions
about the use of art book work as punishment. What are you referring to
when you say "Observation Mode?" Is that a subtext for reading about art
and writing about art as punishment? If you are referring to being
self-reflexive and writing about the circumstances in which students find
themselves then I couldn't agree more.
>You wrote >Using artwork as examples of sites of contention and artists who
>>dissatisfaction as impetus for their work can be useful to redirect
>Yes, but that's a whole different topic than what you might be covering in
>class that day and that time.
Maybe so. What led you to believe that I was arguing that it needed it
occur immediately in response to every disruption? Again, read the message
and you will see the part you left out in the cropped quote. Here it is
just for the record;
"Of course, not in every case and not every time. "
>You wrote >We must problematize our own complicity in any model of
>>rewards control not learning, and understand the myriad of reasons why
>>students would be disruptive in classroom social relationships. Teachers
>>should always take active responsibility for raising serious questions
>>about classroom management, legitimate forms of control, unequal power
>>relations and how certain systems of reward and punishment reproduce
>>behaviors antithetical to democratic learning.
>Yes, but we do that outside of regular class time -- Whether in committee,
>self-reflection, or in an individual dialogue with the disruptive student or
>students. It helps to be consistent with the patterns within a school
>building or district, and there has to be quite a lot of collegial research
>and dialogue before that starts to feel like it belongs to all the owners of
>the school -- not just the administrators.
Some do, many do not.
Thanks for the chance to , once again (and the last time), respond.
Kevin Michael Tavin Ph.D. Candidate
Dept. of Art Education
The Pennsylvania State University
School of Visual Arts