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I second your comments. Actually, for the group, I should mention that
I first "met" you on ArtsEdNet when contacting you for permission to
reprint an article you had written. Anyway, I have several thoughts to
toss in the discussion for consideration.
First, all the authors I know ask permission to use someone's ideas or
work for publication and Mary Ann said she does that, too. Most people
enjoy sharing their ideas and receiving recognition for them. Seeing
your name in print can be a source of great pride
Second, how many of you use ideas from each other, from books, from
ArtsEdNet, and/or from the Internet in general? We would all be much
more limited if we could only use ideas we individually generate. And
how far do we go in claiming an idea for ourselves? Think of the art
activities that appear in numerous texts. Does anyone "own" the rights
to, for example, making a woodblock print or making an art history
As far as I'm concerned, we benefit art education the most when we
share and develop ideas together. Keeping our ideas for only ourselves
does not benefit anyone, much less our students.
Stepping off the soapbox,
>>> craig roland <rolandc> 04/20 10:34 PM >>>
I left home this morning, after reading my email, with the feeling I
drank a glass of sour milk for breakfast. This evening, picking up
on the discussion centered around the use of ideas posted on this list
see that a number of interesting issues have been raised including
questions of authorship, originality, copyright, fair use, and ethics.
While these broader issues are worth discussing further (particularly
the context of a post-modern, electronic age), I'll try to be more
For me, the attacks on Mary Ann are misguided. This became especially
clear when she posted the "complied list of big and messy art ideas."
see few ideas there that are worth putting in a book. On the other
do think she's done a service by re-posting them on the list, so
might benefit. Anyways, I assume that IF Mary Ann (or others) wants
any ideas from this list in a book (or published article), she/they
ask permission of the contributor.
Like others, I confess that I have "used" ideas from this list on
occasions particularly in the context of training future art teachers
(e.g., I've complied lists of ideas regarding grading, working with
populations, etc., from this list and shared them with my art ed
I have also (like Mary Ann) requested ideas from list participants
some time ago I asked for descriptions of dilemmas that art teachers
faced in the classroom) and have greatly appreciated the responses
received. In doing so, I've always worked with the assumption that
responses were "copyrighted" and I credited the "expression" of those
to those who offered them. Related to this, I recently discovered a
of ideas that I once contributed here posted on a website elsewhere
with a citation including my name.
I'm reminded of an art ed student in my class some years ago who wrote
her journal (after spending time in a classroom) that she was amazed
amount of thinking and planning that went into teaching art. As I
she wrote something like "I just thought that art teachers got their
out of a big book somewhere. I never realized how much work is
teaching art." In more recent years, I have directed my students to
ArtsEdNet archives as a big "virtual" book of ideas, strategies,
approaches, and so on related to teaching art.
I just hope that you all realize what a valuable resource this list is
future art teachers and that we will all continue to be contributing
CRAIG ROLAND. Associate Professor-Art Education.
School of Art and Art History, FAC 302,
University of Florida, Gainesville Florida.
32611-5801. (352) 392-9165 - Art Ed Office (352) 392-8453 - Fax
new email address: rolandc